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I coached middle school soccer and knew the interests of this age of child. Needless to say I spent all of my time disciplining students and trying to keep the oogling eyes to a minimum. My principal sat me down numerous times asking if I was okay and that I looked miserable. I was. I thought about giving up teaching, but I accepted a position in 2nd grade and fell back in love with teaching. I realized I was mot the best person for the job.

Their next teacher gave them everything they needed. I bless her everyday! I have been a teacher for 9 years, and I can no longer do it. I decided I would attempt to teach Kindergarten in an inner-city charter school, and it has been the biggest mistake I have made. Charter schools are not run like public schools and the work load is much heavier, yet the pay is much less. I have missed over a week of work due to stress and illness and have lost a significant amount of weight. I stand behind my decision of leaving and I know my health is way more important than any job, so too is my marriage.

One can only give so much of oneself before you are the one who actually loses. I too have been out of work for 3 weeks due to stress and being over worked. I will be turning in my resignation. The issue for me is not the students; however, it is the excessive paper work, meetings, and unfair demands put on us.

Teachers take time away from their spouses and children in order to perform this job. I spent countless hours preparing lesson plans, prepping, and studying material for the next day of teaching. Most nights I stayed up until 2 am preparing for the next day. I love teaching and children, but I love my husband and family way more. Please PRAY for me. I feel your pain Waving the Flag, I am considering rendering my letter on Dec.

Nice to know I am not alone in feeling this way about inner city teaching. I love the kids but have been moved to five different schools in six years. Inconsistency and chaos often rule the day. I am exhausted and really miss my family. I work in a semi-isolated community 50 miles from the nearest town. I teach grades , but half my class is at a K level in reading and math. This year, he means well, but students should not be referred to the office, and cannot be suspended.

This is so sad, this is why Teachers get a bad rap! When pursing the teaching profession, people really should think about the worst situation possible and if they can handle it mentally, emotionally, physically, etc. More than likely those are the kids that needed you the most and just like you said, they have been left before so that is all they know. Knowing that and turning around and doing it to them is just atrocious.

I urge everyone to do your homework before picking the teaching profession because ALL children need inspiring, strong, and caring teachers! Veronica, I am just curious — are you a teacher? Have you ever been in a teaching situation such as the one described above? There needs to be more conversation about change, and bringing an awareness to the public as the realities of what our teachers are up against daily. Then there needs to be a plan to support them, and not just in word only.

I could go on. Veronica, I am a teacher who left the profession. Most of us thought long and hard about going into teaching and worked very hard to be the best teachers we could possible be, for the kids. But there was no way to prepare for what we have had to face. Teaching is one crisis situation after another, especially in the inner city. What I had to do was to make a decision about the value of my own health. The decision to leave the teaching profession was extremely difficult. My heart was in it, but it was making me emotionally and physically ill.

I agree with Blithe. I do though have to draw the line when the time I take to do all the obligations and work required takes away from my family, and my personal health spiritual and physical. Being a teacher today is becoming more and more difficult. Thank you Blithe for your insight. I have to tell those of you struggling with the decision to leave, I was so nervous to provide my principal with my letter of resignation, but am now so glad I did. I am ready to move forward.

I will continue with the field of education, but in the college sector. I am not sure if I will return to the elementary school classroom, as I no longer believe in the changes that are being made constantly. Teachers are now treated like unworthy slaves, and that breaks my heart. If my heart and soul are not in it, it is not fair to all of those souls who need someone whose is. My next task is to write a book on my experiences to hopefully shed light to those who have no true idea what is going on behind the closed door.

Waving the Flag, I salute your courage. Curious as to what your letter said and how it was received. Still looking for another job first. So happy for you. Good luck in your new endeavors. Read this: so true! I was a teacher for 7 years. Never in my life did I think I would do something so risky as quitting my teaching job mid-year. But a series of events led me to this difficult decision. My body crashed. The stress and pressure that I used to handle with ease was manifesting itself in a great depression that left me feeling guilty.

I had no gusto. My husband a daughter suffered because of it. It was a struggle, but I made the difficult decision to leave the profession behind me. I feel that I may have let the kids down but I also know that fourth graders are resilient and in 10 years this will be a blip on their radar.

My ultimate complaint about the job is the relentless pile of duties and paperwork given to teachers with no regard for the number of hours in the day. It became so thankless for me that I had to quit for my own health. Were my first 6 years of teaching enjoyable? But it seems like this year contained the over-scheduling of meetings, half-hearted professional development agendas, over-bearing parents, and ever difficult process for getting struggling students help that was just enough for me to resign.

Believe me when I say I am not the type of person to do such a thing. But I would hope that other people reading this post who have maybe done searches about getting out of the teaching profession would take solice in my story. If you had a friend who was an accountant and they were unhappy with their job would you sink so low as to judge them for needing a change? I am curious as to what state you teach in.

I am in the same boat. I just got back from break and I am ready to resign. I am trying to stick it out and find another job first. If you can stick it out, do. It makes the most sense financially, right? I live in Oregon. I just know that we get one life and I was not going to do this til retirement so I made the change. Sarah, I hear what you are saying!! I keep hanging in there hoping for a change or a new job offering but the stress is taking its toll.

State tests came back very low last week so now there is even more pressure added. Just praying my way through this.

I admire your courage and can only imagine how much lighter you feel. One called me to give me the news on the first day after Christmas break. She said they were being harassed and going to start their own school. At first, I was supportive. I understand how stressful teaching in our current environment is. Later, after further investigation, I changed my mind. I found many details were distorted based on reports by fellow teachers, parents and the children.

The deciding factor for me was the testimony corroborated by my child and other children in the class that the children saw both teachers that Tuesday. The child that told me this was one of the two of the sixteen students that my daughter 11 years young and innocent had reported were most devastated by the teachers leaving.

I have lost all respect for these two teachers. I am a physician and am bound by law not to mention ethics not to abandon my patients. I have to put my patients needs above my own. There are now 16 souls facing abandonment issues that will scar them for a lifetime. I have lost respect for these teachers that did not at least say good bye to their students. I hope they never are in the position to hurt other children. Suzanne, That sounds like a terrible experience for the students, parents and remainder of the school staff. I agree that what you described was very unprofessional.

And I feel resolve with the way I said goodbye to my students. Granted, this is unique to me and many women manage this and more with grace. I simply had to make a life change. I am now working through the guilt of leaving something I once loved but ultimately put my own health above the profession. That I cannot apologize for. I am sorry that the students at your school are feeling abandoned…they have every right to feel that way. But I always remind myself that children are resilient. I sincerely hope the situation at your school changes for the better!

Sarah, I would not have had a problem if the teachers had explained and said good bye. Nothing we parents and other teachers say seems to help them. I am glad you said good bye. I trusted these teachers with my children. I will not do it again with these particular ladies who are starting their own school. This does not apply to you or any of the other teachers who leave without hurting the children.

And about children being resilient. They are not as resilient as you think. You are not the first adult who has mentioned this. I was surprised at first, but I later realized not everyone is as aware of the effects of childhood trauma as I am.. I am a child and adolescent psychiatrist by training. However, I now see adults and geriatrics. Abandonment scars cause problems that last into adulthood.

That is why divorce is so harmful to children. It is as though these children have lost someone through death. A few have asked if this happened because they were bad. Mine just keeps it inside. Some of the parents have even suggested grief counseling. This incident affected many people.

I made sure to say good-bye, not only to my students, but also to my parents, and my colleagues. I also made gift bags for all of the kids with special messages inside. I also keep in touch with the new teacher who took my position God bless her. My health is now much better and I have had several people tell me how much better I sound when I talk to them. I feel like I have gained my life back, emotionally, spiritually, and physically.

I was doing a disservice to those students by staying any longer. I was absolutely miserable. I was angry. Best of luck to those of you who are trying to decide what to do. Most importantly, do what is best for you and your family. It is not worth losing a marriage over, not having any energy or time to take care of your own children, and allowing your health to deteriorate like mine did.

There is light at the end of the tunnel, I promise you. Even though there are hardly any behavior issues, I still feel burnt out. I would love some ideas for a former teacher. Most of us anticipated the low wages but the blatant disrespect is completely unexpected and difficult to overlook. Lisa, I do not hink you or any of the teachers on this page have mistreated children like our 2 teachers did. Money and respect have nothing to do with mistreating children.

I am saying get out without hurting the children in your care. My post had nothing to do with the people here. I was just needing to vent about the treatment of our 16 children. Howver, regarding the pay issue not all physicians are wealthy and the pay is much worse than it used to be. I have k student loan debt my husband had 75k and has never been able to work at ant more tha a minimum wage job because of health issues- nursing not physician.

I usually make about 80 k, but have made about 70k. Some teachers make more than I do administrators , so for the years of my life and the hell I went through, the difference is not that much. That being said, teachers do not get paid enough. My GGM always tod me there were 3 noble professions, preacher, teacher and physician. I started out at 11 wanting to be a missionary. I changed to planning to get a Ph. So, at 19, I reexamined my life and at 33 graduated from med school.

I think police and firemen are under paid as well. I agree with the respect issues, though. Many do not deserve that respect. I do think teachers also get more respect from the community, parents and kids than most other people. Money and respect should have nothing to do with not mistreating children.

Teacher, like doctors and clergy, in a position of authority. The potential for abuse is huge. Anyone who goes into these endeavors just for money and respect should find another profession. And I am disheartened that the career I loved has so changed that the requirements and expectations are not much different than classroom teaching. I wanted library to be a respite from the day to day tasks of the classroom, as modeled by my mentor. This is only one of many issues in public ed that are sad for me.

I loved my school. I spent eight years at that middle school. They hired me straight out of college. Looking back on it now, I feel like my co-workers watched me grow up. They helped raise me. I always said that when I became a mean teacher, I would leave. And I had become a mean teacher. I was teaching an elective that the kids did not get to pick — Creative Writing. My classes were huge 35 and up and I was also stuck in a windowless room, in the back of the school. There was very little disciplinary support from the front office, and very few rules I was allowed to actually enforce with any authority.

I was charged with making all my own curriculum but not given any direction, then I got slammed by admin for not being on pace with a non-existing learning schedule. I had one functioning computer for the students to use while the other elective in my grade level had a full production graphics design studio. Oh, did I mention the 35 thirteen year olds in the room? I know this. I love children. I love learning and I am constantly searching for new ways to reach my students. I constantly offer and give help to others.

I practically made a career of scratching backs. During this time, I was serving as the yearbook advisor. I loved those kids.

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My yearbook kids were hard-working, sweet, and dependable. Additionally, I was working part-time for a virtual school as academic integrity support. It really hurts. So, when my virtual school offered me a full-time teaching job, at the same salary as all three of my jobs, and the opportunity to work from home, I was at once overjoyed and immediately conflicted. Would it get better next year? Could I leave my kids? Could I leave my friends?

Could I leave my school? I agonized for weeks, but when the time came to make a decision, I went with the virtual school. I get to spend one-on-one time with my students for however long they need me. Is is perfect? But was it the right decision for me? As teachers, we are here to serve the needs of others. My students treated me like a princess during my last week, and their loving acts were not lost on me. I chose to interpret his actions as a reaction to being hurt, and not really meant to hurt me. It was disappointing, but thankfully, my co-workers cheered me off into my new job and showered me with hugs.

I did what was the right thing for me, and I know it was best for my students. They needed who I used to be. Creative Writing, forced elective, no curriculum, students, serious discipline issues. I work at the school until and then get up between in the morning to try to plan. My heart pounds and I am nauseated and unable to eat, I feel so stressed about this class. The passion, patience and tolerance are gone. Point blank. Ditto to everything read in the above posts. Many management jobs only require a degree,,,not specific to the job…just so you can prove you can organize and manage people…who better than a teacher?

There have times over the years that I have wondered how I was going to get through the next month, week, day, or even hour. Teaching is a tough profession. If you are a title 1 school, you must deal with issues related to poverty and violence. If you work at a middle class school, you must deal with individuals that feel teachers are beneath them. There is no perfect place to teach, nor is there a perfect class, but what gets me through the day is the love that I have for each of my students. Today, members of the district visited our classrooms. They were not happy with my grade level.

Each of us were doing what was expected of us, but not what the district wanted to see. My principal wants us to conduct small reading groups. How do you conduct small reading groups if the other students are doing mindless worksheets? The disconnect between what districts, principals, parents, and students wants makes teaching very difficult.

How do I satisfy everyone? I was doing what my students needed at the time. As a 25 year veteran teacher, I have seen it all. I have gone through a half dozen programs and adoptions. Everyone thinks he knows what the kids need. Just like this group of District People, everyone thinks they have the perfect answers. Ironically, no one does. No class is ever the same from year to the next. No student is ever the same from year to year and no school is exactly alike.

One year, I will have a good year, and the next year, I will be wringing my hands all year. I have seen 7 superintendents come and go, worked with 12 principals, taught from 6 different Language Arts series, and have seen the pendulum swing back and forth so many times that I feel dizzy from all the changes. I have been a gifted teacher to some and a pariah to others. Some parents have loved me and others have hated me. But… all in all, I have taught children to the best of my ability and loved them all with all my heart.

I am not been a perfect teacher, but I have given my all. Of the plus students that I have taught, they know one thing — that I loved them and I did my best. My princpal has written me up for submitting late assessment data and lesson plans … poor classroom management bc i wasnt able 2 handle a few students misbehavior on my own. I had to develop a teacher improvement plan and implement it now which is causing me more stress bc my principal made it clear I should take leave. My husband says other teachers teach and have time for their family.

I want to quit but I feel guilty leaving the students they all are very nice and well behaved except 4 several students behavior makes it difficult to teach. I feel so bad that I have used up all my sick days and feel uncomfortable saying I needed a mental health day. I so understand and relate to this article and many of the teachers who have posted.

I taught public school for 4 years. My children were not being challenged at all so for 4 years I homeschooled. That was the best thing I ever did for my family. When they reached the ages beyond my teaching credentials I placed them in a private school where I also picked up a job for 2 years. Having a sexually abusive background, the perpetrator began showing up at my work my 3rd year of teaching.

He was good friends with my principal. I approached my principal and asked if he knew what the perpetrator had done. Not so. It was against the law for the man to be on school grounds. I hated the politics. I quit working for that school that year. It was a sad time for me. I was so low over believing my principal believed the perp. I went into a depression. Then I pulled myself together and began homeschooling, not only to challenge my children, but to get them away from such evil. Yes, a huge investigation was conducted and I was given many options.

But the school system had offered too little, too late. Homeschooling was a blast and my boys soared through school and became so far ahead of the public schools that I held pride in my boys. I then tried public school again. Fifth grade. My youngest went with me to school. That was my year from Hell. I was given the worst kids with the most needy of problems. Not hard to deal with for me. I loved teaching. As time went by my teammates on grade level bgan to talk about me and the principal joined in on their efforts to make my life miserable. I never got them to switch time of day for meetings.

Anything they could do to tear me down, they did. I ended up quitting before the end of the last 9 weeks…Again, an investigation was done only to find out the principal had broken several laws and codes of conduct. I was done. Both boys were tested and placed in a private school. They wanted to move them up several grades. I allowed only one grade. Being the youngest in your class was going to be tough enough. I took a job there teaching 4th grade. I had a blast….. After my new principal found out I was on depression medication she told me that mind altering meds. The pressure began to build.

My depression got worse and I began to have panic attacks. Only, my attacks looked like some kind of seizure. On my last day teaching at that school, I had a panic attack at the school convincing the principal I had a demon in me. I was released that day. My oldest son was months away from graduating.. He graduated valedictorian, of course.

The next year number two began having problems with the high school curriculum. Again, we had him tested and found out he had a simple type of epilepsy. He would blank out for seconds several times in a minute. So, we asked for notes to be copied so he could study the entirety of the class material. We were denied. I told them they were breaking the law. Back to public school with number 2. He received the help he needed and over-came his disease.

He was popular and a star athelete. He bloomed. I went 15 years without teaching a single child. I missed it very much. Today, I tutor a kindergartener and a 2nd grader 2 times a week each. I do not charge for my services. I do it purely for the love of teaching. I answer to me. No one has an issue with me. I should be retired by now. Christina, I love your story.

Homeschooling was the coolest thing I have ever done. My son is flourishing in public high school though now I think that was the best decision for him. The comments about Satan made me laugh. Remember the two teachers I said left the kids? One of the new teachers and youth pastor said they had been great teachers before.

Wow, no one has to change or take responsibility if we can blame Satan and evil spirits. Thank you for this. I taught two years previously in the inner city and though some days were exhausting, I stuck with it. The kids were good kids at their core and administration was supportive. When my husband was transferred out of the city, I got a new position at a small charter school serving a residential treatment center and neighboring community. Almost all of them came to school heavily self-medicated which made it impossible for them to comprehend most things, let alone learn.

They proudly bragged about the drugs they were on. I spent my day just trying to get them to stop texting on their phone or talking over me. I had to constantly reteach materials because they would forget what they learned so quickly. I reached my limit when a student came into class every day and tried to intimidate me. I would write him up and nothing ever happened to him.

Something went wrong. Please try your request again later. A native of Alexandria, LA and the third child born to Rev. Paul and Iola Colwell. Wife of Andrew Williams Sr. These insightful writings bring individual healing and restoration. Her favorite pastime is writing, reading and attending sporting events of all kind. Are you an author? Help us improve our Author Pages by updating your bibliography and submitting a new or current image and biography.

Learn more at Author Central. Previous page. Kindle Edition. Next page. There's a problem loading this menu right now. Learn more about Amazon Prime. Get fast, free delivery with Amazon Prime. I fail to see how my relationships and family been 'underminded'. I accuse you and Senator Bernardi of undermining values which I hold dear, which are to honour and respect the rights and choices of those in my community who are not considered 'traditional' by blinkered fools such as yourselves.

I have a twelve year old stepson. Neither his biological parents have any interest in his life. He has been in my sole care for eight years. I have fought all those years to receive support from those parents to raise their offspring to little avail. He is a happy, intelligent boy. He has my undying Love, respect and support. He would have received very little of these from his biological parents who had separated when he was two years old.

His biological father removed himself at that point and has not returned, no birthday cards or presents. His biological mother left him in my care two years later and has visited only twice since. Does Mr Bernardi think my son would be better off with me or with his dysfunctional and separated biological parents.

Not all cases are black and white, most single parents are not a poor second choice. And my son doesn't want to know or have a relationship with people who don't wish to know or have a relationship with him, as is his right. GRF Let's start at the very beginning. Conception: How should this be prevented? Does Cory Bernardi or his Church advocate a determined campaign to prevent, or reduce, unwanted conceptions? Adoption: If a child that the natural mother does not want, either because she already has too many, is unmarried, has been raped, cannot support it, goes full term and is adopted, how is this child then being raised in its biological family?

I have seen many adopted children who were so badly mismatched with and misunderstood by their otherwise kindly adopting parents that their lives were destroyed. Orphans: How many children were raised by single parents because their fathers were away at war for up to 5 years, or perhaps did not return from war? Does Bernardi think that these children were then doomed to grow up as criminals or prostitutes? Marriage breakdown: Would Bernardi tighten up the Divorce Laws so that children are forcibly brought up in homes with squabbling, unloving parents?

Incest and child abuse within the home: Does Bernardi think that this does not happen in "traditional" families? Does he think that only atheists and muslims do such things? I would suggest that Bernardi-thinkers could happily spend their days on their couches watching old American soap operas like "Father Knows Best" and "The Dick van Dyke Show" and leave the management of the Real World, as it is now and always has been, to those who seek real political solutions.

As we are told, Jesus was raised in a non-biological family, totally lacking his adoptive earthly father Joseph's DNA, descended only from King David via his mother, Mary. Very non-traditional. So you believe that a child is better off with an abusive natural parent than with a caring step parent.

You comments lack any evidence or logic to back them up. Corey Bernardi is a man who espouses a hateful brand of angry fundamentalist intolerance, a man who cannot be seen to represent the aspirations of any Australian and should be marched out of parliament forthwith along with his supporters including a tacitly indulgent Abbott. What will be next; ethnic cleansing, Eugenics? Yet another bridge too far by this divisive rabble that whined it's way into power. I notice the author refuses to deny the main claim This should be easy to find out. I doubt its easy to check the promiscuity among girls - as I government doesn't records how many times people have sex.

While they would have records on the children being born, or people being treated for sexual diseases, that's not what is being mentioned. I reckon Cory is stretching the truth when it comes to girls, he may be correct with the boys, and Christianity it is own worse enemy with refusing to deal with sex abuse - he cant blame the greens for that.

Also not the inherent sexism on both sides of his argument. Boys become criminals, girls become promiscuious. While promiscuity in men has always been fairly well overlooked by society, I doubt that it has failed to keep pace with the overall upwards trend, and there are plenty of women and girls in our criminal justice system. I know quite a few folk with promiscuious or criminal tendancies that were raised in stable christian homes. If anyone is wondering why atheism is on the rise, the behaviour of such outspoken individuals just amplifies the feelings of distrust and disgust towars the various religious groups not just the Catholics, or even just the Christians.

While abuses of trust continue to be swept under the carpet, and the attitude to those outside the narrow definition of 'good' laid down a couple of thousand years ago under completely different economic and social conditions is to exclude and denounce, people will continue to walk away from faith based organisations.

The statisitics show that average of first sexual intercourse is earlier and number of sexual partners is higher for girls raised without a father. How is that a sexist comment?? I think you would find that a different analysis of the 'statistics' would be that those who live in poverty are more likely to engage in criminality. It is not if you come from a single parent family but the economic circumstances of life that are a fundamental isse. I suggest Mr Bernardi may like to use his position to ensure that 'no Australian child need live in poverty' where did I hear that from, what is the leader of the party that cut sibgle parent benefits once your kids reached 8?

A typically leftist insult of poor people. I was brought up in a poor neighbourhood over 60 years ago and there was so little crime that everyone regularly and normally left their front doors open all day during the summer, with no thefts, rapes etc. Not that any of the luvvies of "their" ABC ever want reality to impinge on their dreamworld.

Like Roger I grew up in a less than wealthy family in the immediate post-war years born a 1st generation baby boomer adopted at birth p'haps that's my problem. The difference between us is that I still have the values that were taught in the society I was raised in. A fair go for all and respect for the beliefs of others. I was also taught to speak out against those who would limit the rights of members of society to make decisions regarding their own lives.

The figures produced on these pages to support the arguments of various people are not supported with any demonstrable data, where is the factual evidence that says there is more promiscuity to-day that in the 's? If one is to accept the argument that biological parents are the "ideal" in raising children, what does that infer regarding all those kids born into adoption or orphanages prior to the advent of the pill? Were these the original young criminals that started the "problem" we supposedly now face?? Perhaps the real answer is that we simply have a far better grasp of what happens in our little part of the world due to the advances in communication, crime is reported in a way that was never contemplated in the recent past because the technology didn't exist to do so.

This is not an evidence vacuum where all opinions are equal. Better a luvvy than an ignorant bigot. The thing is that you were a child when you were growing up 60 years ago. As a child you were protected from seeing the alcoholism, domestic violence, intra-marital rape etc etc that occurred back then. Preachers Kid

Stress breeds the kind of problems that PK mentioned. Poverty breeds stress. It is not an insult to say that. It would be an insult if we were to believe that all of that stuff is the poor people's fault hint: some on Bernardi's side DO believe that. Roger, you have a strange take on politics and have just insulted your 'luvvie' Libs what is a 'luvvie'? Statistically has the crime rate increased or is that we hear more of it because bad news is News. Roger, I know you the impression that your neighbourhood was virtually crime-free, but that is a your personal anecdote.

With the greatest of respect, I would be more interested in the official crime figures for your region than a personal impression. You would not necessarily be aware of the true situation. For example, much assault and mistreatment of women and children was covered up by families and authorities. You statement that "socialist" changes were responsible for increase of crime is not necessarily accurate, and is in fact sounds like a non sequitur. Perhaps you're in your own dream-world, gilding the lily of the past.

The Freakonomics guys established a positive correlation between the introduction of legalised abortion in the USA and a subsequent drop in crime rates from which they inferred that a higher than average rate of unwanted children would have grown up to be criminals if they weren't otherwise aborted.

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This anecdote is quaint but unrealistic. It is well documented that crime 60 years ago was happening at a relatively high rate compared to today per capita but that reporting of crime was relatively low. Accordingly, the allegation of living in a "dreamworld" is somewhat ironic. Roger, I suggest that you consider the relationship between crime, drug-taking and alcohol. I am now in my eighties. Seventy years ago people were poor, had low wages and very few possessions worth stealing.

Pubs closed at 6 pm. I have had my house burgled 18 times - The modus operandi for the most professional of these burglars was for one man to drive around with a police radio whilst the other broke into houses along the chosen route where the electoral roll said there were two wage earners hence lots of things worth stealing. The "cockatoo" would ring the number of the chosen house to get his mate out fast if that address was called over the police radio.

As the years went on and my burglars became less-professional, they according to the police were motivated by the need to get money for drugs. And when did the drug culture get started in Australia? So let's sheet that home to Menzies. Let's leave crime statistics to the experts. How about someone defining what they think being a Christian really means and how many self-identifying Christians know the answer to that. Interesting that you call this poor people generalisation a leftist attitude as its what I constantly hear at my local Liberal meetings. You go on to asert that the Liberal party instituted the socialist welfare state.

The fist 20 years of that past 60 was the Menzie's era followed by 4 years of Labor then back to the Fraser years. I certainly don't understand your ABC comments either. Funded by successive govts since before Menzies but somehow its a lefty plot. My experience is that the ABC is one of the last bastions of journalism ie free speech, quality balanced journolism left in this country. It really bothers me that we have created this big divide between Australians based around a two party system where where both parties are identical. We should be more concerned with creating a country where everyone gets a fair go and get back to working together instead of working for Murdock and other US based commercial interests.

So true PK. One,two, three parents of any gender does not matter. The crux of the matter is poverty and the resulting family cicumstances. Actually, there is more complexity to the situation than parenting styles. Maginnis notes in "Single-Parent Families Cause Juvenile Crime" among numerous other confirmatory social studies that while single parent families are more prevalent in crime-prone cohorts, there is a greater correlation between socio-economic factors and crime, and that single parents tend to fall within lower socio-economic boundaries.

Among reference samples of single parents in high socio-economic sectors, there is negligible difference in juvenile and adult criminal proclivity to comparable groups with both biological parents. In other words, it's not because there is only one parent, it's because sole parents tend not to have the same rate of economic power. If you want a crime-free society, then make everyone rich.

My greatest concern is that Bernardi is using something that science understands and misunderstanding the reasons for the correlation because of his own prejudices. It's the whole "correlation is not causality" argument. People looking for easy justification, or who have an axe to grind, just want one commonality in a situation and will stop investigating once they find it. Like saying Hitler and Stalin were evil and they both had moustaches Abbott's government is not interested in the complexity of how you structure policy policy to support and disadvantaged families.

Their solution to unwanted pregnancies is the revive the adoption industry of the s and s. Coming from a broken family myself and having briefly studied Sociology, I have kind of observed the topic of crims in the dock and in what families they grew up. There really does seem an overrepresentation of men in the prison system who did not grow up with a loving mum and dad.

It is an undesirable family structure, but it is also unavoidable, when marriages break up because of so many reasons. Most people try for years not to destroy the family but it is not always possible. What do you say to people when you hear 'my daughter's marriage is most likely not to see out this year because he has become an alcoholic. The sons not yet teenagers have lost all respect for their father.

Making the women and children feel bad and second class is not the answer. Remember: You can never punish parents without punishing the children. A bit more sophisticated thinking than Bernardi's is called for. Bernardi is also half-right that Islamists' thinking is a threat to our lifestyle.

But religion is not the answer. All religions condition people to be subservient and obedient. You don't solve problems by simply obeying someone. Less religion would be less divisive and the answers from the religions are definitely not appropriate. If Bernardi thinks our population growth rate should be like I would call him clueless. This is not how the world works, force women to have all the offspring conceived and force them to play loving family.

If he wants fewer boys in single parent situations, he should probably be for more abortions. The effects of broken families have lifelong echos, but you can break the chain by not having children. I sometimes say jokingly that divorce has a hereditary component because so many people from divorced parents get divorced themselves. When Sheik Hilaly said something similar to his constituency none of us thought he was only a danger to himself. His views were also 'traditional', but we rightly condemned them and him as intolerant and intolerable. Barnardi has white skin and a Catholic background therefore he can get away with calling queers bestial and unmarried mothers immoral and incompetent, but he is Sheik Hilaly by another name; we should all recognise that and treat him accordingly.

I'm sorry Alison you could not be more wrong. He appeals to a nasty underbelly in the extreme right. He is a racist bigot, but you notice the Liberals say nothing. Just as they dogged it on Hanson. Howard was also a racist, though he denied it. He was a liar as well. This is the new Free Speech. I am probably older and more realistic-less naive or optimistic. Agreed Karrde. I never understood the Liberal Party's meaning to the word 'liberal', when all they only ever seem to interpret from its meaning is the abilty to go out and make money without constraint.

Of course Bernadi's comments have the danger of re-centreing the mindset of the average conservative. Evidence can be found below just by reading comments from some traditional conservative supporters who clearly give Cory a free passage to voice his opinions without little criticism. Those that easily allow their judgements to be clouded by fundamentalist propaganda such as this, will before long start pointing the finger for the all wrongness in the world at anything and anyone that isnt considered 'proper'.

There is no perfect formular with parenting and relationships. Love underscores the success to bringing up happy children and this comes in many shapes and forms. Cory Bernadi is what I consider to be a very sick man to carry such ugly and unfounded thoughts.

Cory Bernadi, with his latest diatribe for that is all it is has demonstrated that he is really nothing more than an intellectually limited, sexist, racist, homophobic bigot incapable of establishing anything close to a logical argument let alone something that is, in any way at all, supported by facts and reality. Bernardi is nothing more than a schoolyard bully, with the limited intelligence to match - watch as he screams discrimination in the coming days as his offensive and outlandish statements are dismantled around him as in Bernardi's world free speech only exists for him and those few who agree with him.

But Bernardi is a danger - because his statements, as irrational and illogical as they are, do gel with the very few in society who's limited capacity align with his. Those few feel they are then justified in heading out and discriminating against women, making racial taunts, and assaulting those they perceive as 'different' the true targets of Bernardi's offensive language.

That Abbott has not condemned his opinions is, to me, also a concern. Standard left wing response to any argument. Identify the "ism" of the statement that you disagree with. Therefore you dont have to think or confront the facts that dont fit with your ideloogy, or engage in rational debate. In September Bernardi was voted in by his electorate in full knowledge of his views. Bandt got voted in by his electorate. Neither are a danger to Australia in our system of government. So what?

I lived with Mike Bickle and his family for several years….

But Bandt does not advocate divisive views on who should be allowed to call themselves a proper family. Regardless of their respective left-right views Bernardi is far more extreme and further from the political centre than any Greens policy. And yet Bernardi can be a member of a party which the voters accept in their millions.

Bandt and friends are a minority with minority views. Bernardi seems to be closer to the mainstream. Yes the overall Liberal party is supported by more voters than the Greens. But Bernardi is at the extreme. Abbott has already demoted him once from his parliamentary secretary position and just as Team Party extremists embarrassed and damaged the Republican party last year, this government cannot afford much further decline in the polls.

Bernardi was voted into the Senate as he was in the top 3 Libs on the Senate ballot, not because they were giving him a rousing endorsement as happened with Adam Bandt in the House of Representatives. If he is so popular why doesn't he stand for the House of representatives? Bernadi was on top of the Liberal ticket which means even some of Xenophon's preferences went to him. In September the people of SA voted in a Liberal representative to the Senate if indeed Bernardi's spot was up for election this time around.

The Liberal party were the ones who chose to put such an extremist in their allocated Senate spot. You could prove me wrong by showing me that Bernardi got in on the basis of below-the-line first preference votes rather than above the line votes for the party. Bandt was elected directly by his electorate. And yes, as Monty said Bandt is less extreme than Bernardi - the equivalent would be if Bandt was suggesting that we should ban hetero marriage in favour of gay marriage and suggesting that Christianity is the root cause of all the problems we have in society.

Show me where he is saying that stuff. Yes and No. Bandt is a lower house rep and thus has an actual electorate. He was voted in with the understanding that he would be representing his electorate. Bernadi is just a major-party Senator which means he is one of a few that were elected in a block by anyone writing a 1 in the liberal box. Another casualty of the absurd number of preferences below the line on our senate papers that voting Liberal and not voting for Bernadi specifically is far more difficult.

I doubt his brand of rhetoric would see him personally elected in the lower house, even in a safe liberal seat. Good news, he could never be PM. Wait a minute, Joan. Bernardi was on a Senate ticket. The voters who put 1 above the Line did not do so to endorse Bernardi but because the were voting for the LNP. Bernadi was voted in because the Liberal Party placed on the top of there senate ticket, thus ensuring he would get elected. Is he going to pay or look after all the unwanted unaffordable, disabled, born of rape children - NO.

It's OK for him to spout off on his huge salary and perks the rest of us dream of. Not many women want to have abortions - usually a good reason why they do. Cory is anti every one, gays and women in particular. He'd be whinging about building orphanages for kids I'd bet. Overpopulation - NO contraceptives ruling comes to mind. John Lennon sang I have just been to see the movie Philomena. I imagine that Cory Bernardi would think that what happened to Philomena and her son, Michael Hess, a true story, real people was God's Will, and just punishment for sinfulness.

Anti, The demand for addoptions in Australia is so large that all of the children you refer to could be addopted in Australia. Your comment stating the Mr Bernadi would object to orphanages is irrational and baseless. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, the extremist is a person who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Seems to frame up Senator Bernadi quite neatly, don't you think?

The Left can use this moron to paint a negative picture of conservatives. So people on the Left should love him, really. As a Libertarian, I obviously abhor his social conservatism. I vote Liberal due to their policies that allow economic freedom but I have always thought contrary their policies that reduce social freedom.

The Left are equally contrary in that they allow social freedom but hamper economic freedom. Us poor old Libertarians are those that support policies that support both social and economic freedom, however ythe electorate are not interested in Libertarian policies. However much one may disagree, Libertarian policy is consistent. That is, you have the freedom to do as you please to the extent that said choices do not directly or necessarily infringe on others' rights to do the same. How can the Libs say that people are intelligent enough to enter AWA's, but are not intelligent enough to, say, choose to use marijuana.

I don't get it. Either people are too ignorant to make decisions for themselves that only affect themselves or they are not. Both major parties are contradictory in this matter, just a vice versa scenario. Many on the Left think people are too stupid to make economic decisions for themselves, but their social policy is much more respectful of people's right to choose how they wish to live their lives. Maybe one day there will be a realistic Libertarian party, but probably not for a while.

People like Latham and Bernardi have hopefully pushed our cause along, though. And for that, I am thankful. Alison, "Cory Bernardi is a man of little tolerance in regard to others and therefore is only a danger to himself. I may even have believed this before I visited Belsen, Daccau and Auschwitz and saw the end results of Bernardi's brand of moralistic populism.

People of little tolerance in regard to others eg: Hitler, Pinochet, Martin Bryant , are the most dangerous human beings on the planet. If Bernardi spent half as much time on making sensible moral choices in his own life as he does trying to interfere in the moral choices of others, he would be half-way to adulthood. And half-way is better than nowhere. In conclusion to the stories I was reading yesterday one would assume that Cory Bernardi either never watched or disliked the Brady Bunch in his younger years. Not to mention Eight Is Enough. The heartwarming relationships of that show concealed a sinister, degenerate stepfamily!

The Cornerstone For Teachers

I assumed that Carol, and whatever his name was, were both widowed. Their only sin, presumably, was that they didn't go on to have more children. My Italian neighbour, in the s and s, had daughters at the local Convent School. She used to tell me funny stories, including that, "There is a great scandal down at the school. None of the mothers can go to confession because they are all 'on the Pill'. One of the Nuns said to me, 'Just tell yourself that you take it for medical reasons. Then it is not a sin.

Won't God notice? It takes a lot of different people to make a world. Busy bodies, religious zealots, misogynists, homophobes, flat-earthers. Thank you Mr Bernardi for testing our ability to tolerate diversity. I cannot be on the far right by any stretch of the imagination and I am not a fan of Bernardi at all. However I am astounded by the profound lack of tolerance by many on someone who is at worst only presenting the traditional view on this matter - some even going to the extent of distorting what he is trying to say.

As he has the right to express his views, the many have the right to say how disgusted they are by what he said. Where's the intolerance, Tezza? Expressing outrage at Bernardi's farcical comments is not intolerance it's a sign of a healthy democracy. And what's this about the "traditional view"? Cory also tried to draw parallels between same sex marriage and marrying a dog. From what perverted tradition does that view emerge? I can't help but feel that your idea of tolerance for Bernardi involves suppressing criticism of Bernardi.

If that's your view it's perhaps intolerant of you to criticise Bernardi's detractors for what you call their "profound lack of tolerance", don't you think? And please provide examples of people "distorting what he is trying to say. Are you criticizing those who tolerate Bernardi's opinions? Are you trying to suppress those who seek tolerance? Are you distorting what Bernardi said about gay marriage? Ok AT, i will give you an example. You just distorted Bernardi's comments by say he drew a parallel between same sex marriage and marrying a dog.

In fact his argument was in relation to a cultural slippery slide. He said that if same sex marriage became accepted the next step could be polygamy he then said that some "strange" people may even want to marry their pets. None of what he said seemed unreasonable to me. I am aware of a push in many coutries including Australia of a small lobby to expand marriage to multiple partners.

There are even smaller organised groups who see marriage to animals as another expression of love and commitement. I trust they are referring to a platonic relationship, but who knows. What happened to the separation of powers? I don't want his religion or Abbotts - just a democratic government where all are equal. Is it too much to ask in ? Not at all, as long as you can consciously treat all people as equal in everything that you say, think and do.

It would appear that it is too much to ask for given that most Australians voted against secular government note: Abbott made his values and religion clear, as did most of his shadow ministers when they were in opposition so no one can argue that this was unexpected. Yes, we all know Tony professes to be a devout Catholic but show me one comment anywhere where he says he intends to turn us into a theocracy either directly or indirectly.

If he had he sure as hell wouldn't have been elected. We are a secular society like it or not. Still he is shaping as a true Howard disciple e. Though not necessarily a moral one When the Pope's men are in power - after all they speak for God. I wonder if she knows that! The separation of powers doesn't preclude people in government from having strong religious views.

Nor should it. Quite right - up to a point. But if policy becomes secondary to, or is subverted by, that religious belief we have a problem. Australia is a secular society and should stay that way. Australia only pays lip service to being a secular society. Just look at our public holidays and the tax advantage given to religion. Totally agreed. But you'd be surprised just how many MPs have strong religious views. It's higher than the rate of the constituents they serve.

Of course not a problem in itself, unless it clouds their ability to foster evidence-based policy. The separation of powers does not exist under the Westminster System. The executive Ministers, PM are drawn from the legislature parliament and often end up on the judiciary. See Lionel Murphy; makes laws in parliament; executes the same laws as Attorney General; adjudicates on the same laws as High Court Judge. Do you see any separation there? If you mean separation of church and state, maybe you didn't notice Mr Rudd proclaiming he was a Christian prior to the election, and his endless church-door Sunday interviews whilst PM.

If you did, did YOU vote for him regardless? Terrence: even Senator Bernardi distorts what Senator Bernardi has said. The thing to remember here is, while you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts same goes for you APM. The somewhat factually challenged Senator never shows that he has read widely on any subject, just the tracts that support his minority view point, a view point that is shrouded by an admiration for a past that never existed and a hoped for future that will never transpire.

Surely you know that if it isn't in the good book then it surely must either be: a wrong b the work of the devil c the work of the left see b Lucky for Cory that Jesus showed compassion, understanding and forgiveness for all, not for what they said or did but for simply for the human being before him. That is to say a non judgemental acknowledgement of them despite their human failings and flaws. I leave it to the reader to decide. Perkin Warbeck : " Consider the following quote : "You are not entitled to your opinion.

You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. Oh right, that traditional view! And I didn't even have to distort what he is saying! PP, you can lie to yourself, you'd probably even believe it, but Cory did not say homosexuals I do not use the word gay, I don't like euphemisms cause bestiality and incest. What he said was if you open a door for one perversion you open the door fo them all. G K Chesterton summed it up well, "If you are going to move a fence, it pays to see what the fence is there for. Its the ascertion that homosexuality is a perversion that rankles.

If Christians believe their bible then they should not eat shellfish ever. Homosexuality only has 2 references but shellfish has seven, this would lead me to believe god is more concerned with shellfish than homosexuals. I'm sure people like Fred Nile and most Islamic preachers proselytise a variant on the same theme. The resistance to gay marriage is predicated on such views, for example. Its about setting high standards. Every time 'progressives' make something lesser equal that appears superficially nice and tolerant, there are negative outcomes swept under the carpet.

The Left have had their way for decades and they clearly haven't been able to perfect humanity, so there is plenty to talk about. The Left is not a rational beast or as tolerant as claims so it deals with its many failures by banning free speech and abusing challengers. In this forum the Left have shamed and discredited themselves by regularly comparing Bernadi to Hitler, extreme Islam, and attacked Catholics. But the comparison between him and extreme Islam seems to hold up when you consider their shared views on homosexuality. As for attacking Catholics, why should Catholicism or those that believe in it, be an inviolable sacred cow to somewhat mix metaphors?

And do you hold Bernardi to the same sort of criticism when he attacks Islam? In almost every field politics, economics, culture the progressives have categorically not been in charge during the last few decades. Only in academia can we see somewhere where the Left hold dominance, and we all know how sadly uninfluential that area is. How far to the right must you sit if you look at the Howard and Fraser years, and if you look at the market deregulation and the dominance of neo-liberal economics and think that the Left have been running the show?

Is it just me, or is there a correlation between the extent of one's extremist right views and a lack of intelligence? The Churches have had their way for hundreds of years.