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But all the others except house-elfs, who are also treated badly are animals. It begins to feel as if these werewolf offices are the wizarding equivalents to the dog catcher and dog licenses. Hopefully this only means Lupin must carry 'his papers' with him, but I think there's a likely possibilty that werewolves are marked with a registry number shades of nazi camps The 'being' division lumps werewolves with the goblins Goblin Liaison Office who even after many revolts are still trying to get the concession from the ministry to use wands.

And probably these are not listed in the Lexicon the Vampires not considered to be wizards , and maybe Trolls and Hags. So, I think it's obvious that the ministry sees werewolves - at best - as not really human even tho' they're only 'beasts' for a few days a month I find everyone's ideas that Lupin was out doing other work for DD a contact before PoA a little unlikely. I don't think we have any canon for it and I think we do have more proof that he has been busy teaching before then. He's too good of a teacher not to have experience. I'll accept the possibility that maybe during year 2 because it's right after VM has lost his 'Quirrel body'.

But, I think it more likely that since VM had the whole world to go to, DD made use of a network of acquaintances he has in the internatinal wizarding community. It just makes more sense than sending out Lupin travelling all over the world to find VM. And the same during GoF. And I don't think that bit really implies Lupin was doing anything for DD at the time. I like Lupin alot, but I want to be sure not to unheedingly 'heroize' him without facts or clues in canon. Centaurs are in this group because the 'chose' to be, not wanting to be considered 'beings'. I agree with the latter. I still maintain that the next Minister will be genuinely evil, creating a much bigger threat than the lethargic and inept Fudge.

We're coming up to the climax of the series and things are likely going to get worse before they get better. I also don't think we've heard the last of Dolores Umbridge and her agenda that involves tagging half-breeds, or clause three of the Code of Wand Use which states that "no non-human creature is permitted to carry or use a wand", GoF Ch 9 not to mention the Werewolf Capture Unit which we are made aware of in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them.

Umbridge will likely have a vendetta agains the centaurs which will boost her already obsessive level of prejudice against half-breeds. She is ambitious enough to do whatever it takes to gain power, for example illegally sending Dementors after Harry. I would wager that she has been undermining Fudge for awhile now, judging by her comment that "What Cornelius doesn't know won't hurt him He never knew I ordered Dementors to go after Potter last summer Yep, or at the very least the new chairman of the Committee for the Disposal of Dangerous Creatures.

And yes, I do think she's going to come after Remus. This is partly foreshadowed by Sirius' explanation to the trio about the werewolf legislation and his statement that" For those of you who are familiar with our theory this definitely plays into it. And as for Fudge, well Loup and I have kind of wondered what's to become of him. Notice at the Three Broomsticks in PoA Fudge orders red currant rum to drink, as in "red rum", as in murder spelled backwards. Now this could be coincidence or perhaps a certain evil Senior Undersecretary to the Minister is willing to do absolutely anything to get his job.

When Hagrid brings the photo album to Harry in the hospital wing he tells him that he "sent owls off ter all yer parents' old school friends, askin' for photos I can imagine a photo of James, Lily and Sirius would be very dear to Remus, but that he would give it up for Harry knowing it would mean the world to him. So do I think that Umbridge will be the next Minister for Magic? This is really scary. I can't remember the last time I disliked a character so much. I really hope the wizarding world is smarter than putting her in charge of anything, after they dump Cornelius.

Especially if they are ready to listen to DD now. In fact, I was truly hoping we would not hear more than a "she got sent to Azkaban for setting dementors on Harry. That won't be pleasant reading. I've always wondered if Lupin actually took the the picture as well. That makes a lot of sense. I do wonder why Hagrid never mentioned Remus or Sirius or Peter for that matter as well at all.

Well I suppose I can figure out Sirius, that would be hard for Harry to know or what Hagrid thought he knew. I also wonder why Remus was never mentioned in book three during the conversation Harry overhears between Hagrid, Prof. McGonagall, etc. Actually, I've wondered if Lupin didn't distance himself a little after the werewolf incident in 6th year - I doubt he refused to speak to them, but he may have been spending more free time alone and introspective.

And I think that added Lupin scene in PoA talking about Lily suggested a friendship between them aside from James' girlfriend wife. I almost say we had already discussed it and then I realized I had had this same discussion only this morning in the Marauder's thread :blush: It's too confussing.. I think he wasn't mentioned mainly because of the plot line, it's better if Harry finds out at the end,in the Shrieking Shack, giving more climax But other than that I think it's because they weren't really thinking about the Marauders as a whole, as you said yourself they started talking about James and Sirius, who were a lot closer than the other two.

The fact that they mention Peter is more of a "coincidence", the conversation turned that way and McG mentioned it. Lupin, however, had no reason to be brought up, they never said "James and Sirius always hanged around this other people, Peter and another boy", they only say Peter was "another friend of James". Why would they list Lupin if he had no connection to the conversation? He hadn't betraied the Potters and he hadn't been involved in Peter's "dead". PS: Xayla you should empty your owlery ;.

Hey, I just noticed that I'm not sure, but I have a feeling they remained quite close all through out their Hogwarts years, it's afterwards, when a certain little rat has opportunity to plant seeds of doubt about Lupin to the other Marauder's, that I believe the distancing occurred I hope we don't hear any more of Umbridge, but we might.

Let's hope that if she does get into a position of power, she doesn't change the Werewolf Capture Unit into The Werewolf Extermination Unit. I'm not sure if I believe it, but it does seem to tie into your theory Elf. Lupin could have taken the picture, the Marauders were probably good friends after they left school, I think that they only started suspecting each other after the Voldemort started going after the Potters.

Hi, everybody! I've been away a few days and now have loads of catch-up reading to do Yes, and one of the first things the Nazi regime did, even before the death camps, was to get rid of academics, scientists, scholars, university teachers, basically anyone who was a critical thinker, in order to quell in advance any organized, well-thought-out opposition to the movement.

We know that Lupin keeps a cool head e. Free thinking is extremely threatening to the MoM and to LV's regime. So by taking out the academics, a. Dumbledore's Army, thereby making it easier to catch the masses unaware and control them. And in Lupin, we have not only a well-developed mind, but a "half-breed," on top of that.

Twice the reason to get rid of him, in Umbridge's mind. I have a feeling we will see her again and I fear she will be doing some pretty nasty things in the next book s. PS: Xayla you should empty your owlery ; Yes, Puchula, 'tis done. Yeah, I despise Umbridge with a passion, but personally I think that Jo went to the trouble of making such a loathsome villain because she is going to have a key role to play. Now that doesn't necessarily translate into page time, thank goodness, but she could be an evil force opperating largely in the background for much of the story.

Notice how Umbridge is depicted as climbing in rank and accumulating power all throughout OotP. All those Educational Decrees she posts are likely foreshadowing actual laws that she will pass as well. In fact Umbridge openly criticizes Lupin during her first lesson. Note what she says about him: " Remus was a practical, hands on teacher, whose philosophies of teaching and manner of treating the children as intelligent and capable individuals goes directly against the Ministry's thinking.

He has had a significant impact on the next generation of wizards, something that Umbridge will not tolerate, especially seeing as he is considered a half-breed. In short, it is made clear that Remus is a threat to the system. Umbridge challenges this and McGonagall insults her by saying that Harry has done well in any DADA class taught by a competent teacher Ummm, yeah, that would be Remus and? So yet again Remus is depicted as the ideal teacher in comparison to Umbridge and I doubt she will forget the fact that a half-breed werewolf has more respect in this particular setting than she does.

I think the author has deliberately created a link between them while showing us that Umbridge has a particular disdain for Remus and as sadistic, hateful and power-hungry as Dolores Umbridge is, I doubt this storyline is finished yet. Basically if Remus is the HBP I think we can be fairly certain he will have a lot of enemies and they won't be content to simply shun him as has been the case so far.

Unfortunately, you're making really good points. Won't Umbridge be painted with the same brush as Fudge? I'd almost like to see how she could ovecome her close association with Fudge, her repeated denial of LV's return, setting dementors on children, one of whom is a Muggle, her unreasonable decrees, etc.

Not to mention DD surely would oppose her being in any kind of power, right? I wouldn't want to try to get back into power with all that against me. At the end of OotP, she was in pretty bad shape. I suppose she could use that. I just had hoped that the MoM is going to be a positive force in the upcoming war, with someone like Amelia Bones as Minister. Boy, do I live in fantasy world! Catch-up time: I have always wondered if Remus wasn't working for Dumbledore sort of speak as one of his sources, Dumbledore had said he always knew VM was out there and was not gone for good.

But hwyla has a good point- Dumbledore is a very capable wizard who could probably find all of the information he needs without having Remus doing reconnaissance for him. When I have the time, I am going to read the entire Narnia series and keep on the lookout for any more connections that can be made. So during this time, suspicions would have been rampant. Welcome back, urqu, hope your move to Scotland goes well. I also agree that Trelawney may be seeing things that will happen, but that she misinterprets these things. Additionally, they focus solely on the beast aspect of the condition and neglect the fact that werewolves are people too.

So no doubt there is fear and mistrust where werewolves are concerned. So if you're right and she does take over after Fudge, it's a good bet that she'd be a whole lot worse than he was. I'm firmly convinced that Umbridge was manipulating Fudge throughout OotP. He did a degree turn around from the previous books. If she comes back in HBP in any sort of power, it will not be pretty for anyone.

At least LV admits he's evil Which is another reason, I question her returning. She almost overshadows LV and it almost takes away from the plot to have a character rival the bad guy in badness, which she does, IMO. Is there an "I Hate Umbridge Club"? However, now that everyone knows LV is back, I wonder if the focus will shift back to him Oooooohhh, the suspense! It's called the Anti-Umbridge League Originally posted by Xayla: At the end of OotP, she was in pretty bad shape.

Xayla, I am in the same fantasy world as you. Since everyone is aware that DD was telling the truth all along I was hoping that he would have some comment on what is going on in the MOM but I guess we always have to remember Malfoy and his money could make a big impact. As always after reading ELF I have to step back and rethink my own thoughts because she always makes a lot more since than I do.

I just have a hard time making myself believe that I will have to read about Remus being hunted downed and chained :upset: ,but I guess I need to prepare myself for anything. Originally Posted by Mcpherson It seems that I've lost my point on the way I agree wholeheartedly! I was happy in my fantasy world, do you hear? Now I have to keep an open mind!. I bet he gets sprung somehow. I liked having him there though. Back again! Real life is interfearing way too much on my Remus ;. Post away but beware Remus knows Sirius better than most and he would be very helpful in determining what Sirius' move might be if he was going after Harry.

And although DD is not aware, Remus knows the grounds backwards and forewards. I would not be surprised if Remus had been keeping an eye on the entrances to the castle that Filtch didn't know about. Excellent points! I just wanted to add to the numbered section. After school I have little doubt that James, Sirius, and Peter were able to find jobs quite easily, I suspect that they all worked at the MoM I have no idea what Peter might have done though.

Remus would have a very rough time finding work if he was obligated to disclose his lycanthropy or if he was registered as a werewolf. Whatever job he could get it wouldn't be one where he could see the Marauders every day. Plus if he was doing the same mysterious work for the Order as he is now, his missions are ones that are seperate from the rest of the group.

It would be so easy for Wormtail to misconstrue these factors for the Potters and Sirius. We never see him anymore, what do you think he's doing? Xayla, forgot about Malfoy being in Azkaban my stupid. But even he does get out and there is a negative force in the top seat than he will be back somehow buying what he wants even if it is from behind the scenes. I am going to stay in that fantasy world and hope for someone like Amelia Bones, and take the heartache if I am wrong.

Never let it be said that I let good theories get in the way of strong denial or my fantasy world. I may be eating those words very soon though To this we should also add 4 James and Sirius just didn't take Peter very seriously - so with a choice of Peter or Remus as spy, they just assumed it must be Remus as they thought him more capable.

Funny you should say that. Although I don't have the source handy at the moment, JKR has said that Voldemort prefers to have his followers do his dirty work for him, like most dictators. Although she would be sufficiently deluded by her own lust for power not to perceive it that way, does Umbridge actually count as one of those followers, if only because she's ultimately on the same side as Voldemort but more limited in the scope of her "vision" and therefore really subservient to him? Sirius assures the trio in OotP that the world isn't divided into good people and Death Eaters, but then again, Sirius also kept telling Harry in GoF that "Moody" was great and Karkaroff was the possible danger, so one could reasonably call his judgment into question.

I could easily see Umbridge making a deal with the devil to advance her own agenda, with Voldemort all the while delighted to have this useful idiot at his disposal. And they may both desire the elimination of a certain Prince to boot I think it would be fairly easy for Umbridge to discredit Fudge. Ultimately Fudge is the one who will take the poltical fall for ignoring the signs that Voldemort had returned. All Umbridge has to do is make sure she points the finger at Fudge more than anyone else and demand that he be dealt with harshly for doing a poor job.

It seems that the Minister is essentially the face of the Ministry, so I think he'll take the blame while Umbridge will be able to use the situation to her advantage. Many wizards will be terrified now that Voldemort is back and will want a Minister who will govern with an iron fist. Fear will likely be the dominant factor in choosing a new Minster and if Umbridge has a reputation for being tough on supposed offenders I think this could be appealing to a large percentage of the wizard population in this chaotic time.

Now, one thing most people assume is that the new Minister will gain this position by being voted it. This may not be the case however. Umbridge is the Senior Undersecretary to the Minister and while we know relatively little about the wizard political system, this likely means that should anything happen to Fudge, Umbridge would step up to govern in his place at least temporarily.

What if Umbridge ensures that she gets the position of Minister by "doing away with" Fudge? With the current climate of the wizard world it would be very easy to make it look like he had been attacked by Death Eaters As far as Umbridge's condition at the end of OotP, she was definitely in rough shape when we saw her in the hospital wing, but Hermione states that "Madam Pomfrey says she's just in shock", implying that this is a temporary condition.

What happens when the shock wears off and the anger sets in? I can certainly see her vowing to rid the magical world of all half-breeds at that point. Keep in mind that she also left of her own accord, on her own two feet at the end of the book, insinuating that her health is on the mend. You bring up a very important point here. We've been told that Fudge used to depend heavily on Dumbledore for advice, but from the end of GoF on we know that Fudge turned against Dumbledore. Seeing as Fudge has been depicted as next to incompetent, we know that he is likely depending on someone else for "guidance".

From what we have seen of the ambitious Umbridge, it seems probable that he has been relying on her to direct him. If she has been pulling the strings for the last year anyway, it stands to reason that she'll step into the role of Minister for real in the next book. Just some ideas Actually you're right, they didn't know. So, yes, the MoM wouldn't need to do much to get people's consent, after all it would be for "their own good and safety".

Good point, I had never thought of that, it makes even more sense than what I said :agree: I don't know who mentioned it before but I really like the idea that DD hired Lupin to protect Harry from Sirius. I don't know I like the idea of DD hiring him because he's a good teacher and needed a hand. But I admit it could easily be the way you say it. I have some questions though. Yes, indeed, as if she of all people needed MORE reason to hate "half-breeds. They had to do it to escape, of course, but still I have a sneaking suspicion that you are correct.

Pink, lace, and kittens Maybe she was dropped as a child. But I personally think she was licked by a toad as a child either that or her mother drank some toad spittle while expecting her. I happened to think -- there is more than one definition of the word umbrage: 1. Offense; resentment; e. Something that affords shade. The first definition, obviously, is representative of our least favorite DADA teacher in that she manages to cause offense during nearly all of her interactions.

The second definition is interesting to me for two reasons: a The literal -- Umbridge is as wide as she is tall, which implies that she casts a fairly large shadow. Perhaps JK is foreshadowing Umbridge's future involvement in activities that will advance LV's power and cast darkness on the wizarding and Muggle worlds.

Heh heh heh! I'm cringing, but only because I can see that the Umbridge theory is a possiblity. As I said, I had pegged her as the "power behind the throne" for a long time. It really would be an obvious solution to make her MoM. Too obvious? And Denial is such a lovely place to be. You know, I was sort of being sarcastic, but I should have known that there would be one for real.

I think I'll join you. If Umbridge gets to be MoM then I would certainly like to see her reach a tragic end while in office. Then we might be able to get her a big statue, that will be neglected of course. How they will make her look heroic I have no clue though Yep and if we consider that Harry's actions at the end of OotP inadvertently made things worse for Sirius that's an understatement then perhaps this little episode with Umbridge in the forest unintentionally has made things worse for Harry's next father figure This makes a lot of sense.

The meaning behind her name certainly doesn't imply that she spreads sunshine and flowers all over the place. When reading the book, I somehow pictured Jabba the Hut from Return of the Jedi in a pink hair bow and a little princess neckline teen-bopper sweater. Don't worry, Xayla, I don't think even Jo wants Umbridge to stick around! I'm sure she'll get what's coming to her in the end and justice will be all the sweeter after the horrible things she has done and will possible continue to do. I can see the resemblance. And nothing will be left of her but her plates with the evil gamboling kittens.

Oh, dear. Or was it a right five miles after Shoulda Woulda Coulda? Bones is my choice for minister of magic even if it is unlikley! I know this is off subject but in a book series I read called Warriors there is a character that reminds me of Umbridge mixed with a bit of Voldy and Peter. The characters are cats but they are portrayed as people. Tigerclaw would do anything for power, he hates "half-breeds" cats with parents in two clans. In the end his power-hunger kills him.

Umbridge as Minister? Way too scary to think about. It would definetly be interesting if Umbrage became MoM. Such events could add an extra shade of grey, and also show the horrible effects of prejudice against some of our heroes namely everyone's favourite lupine professor. Also, it would be a good way to show that even though the story is out and people believe Harry and DD, that corruption can still be in the government, much as it was during the first Voldemort war.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it said that Remus would have a more important role in this book? Perhaps focusing on the prejudice against him during dark times, when sometimes the worst in people comes out, is what was meant. I'd hate this to happen to Remus my fav after all , but it could make for an interesting sub-plot. Extra-note: I hope this comes out clearly, and I'm not just rambling Did you see this in an interview with JKR?

Especially since we all reckon he could be the HBP I wonder if Umbridge would ever find out that Flitwick actually has some Goblin blood in him? I found this on the Lexicon, in the Open Letter to Rowling. Wouldn't he, according to Umbridge, be a "half breed"? But how much would people agree with Umbridge being the new minister of magic? I mean would anyone 'rebel' against the Ministry besides the people who already consider themself 'above' the law aka Death Eaters.

Could there end up being sort of two ministries, one formal with Umbridge as MoM but no one actually listens too and one more informal that is just in general headed by Dumbledore and is believed and followed? Weasley etc leaving to not take her orders? Somehow I'm now thinking that that makes no sense. On a completely different note, I had Umbridge pictured as Ms. Trunchbowl in the Matilda movies.

Perhaps superstition is Umbridges downfall! Mwhahahaha erm um sorry about that. I was thinking "second star to the right and straight on till morning" too. I have a feeling there are several routes in to good ole Denial. Oh rbpjsg, I'm rebelling against Umbridge. Rebelling, rebelling rebelling I don't care if I don't count since I'm not a fictional character in the book, I'm rebelling anyway. And I'm carrying my fictional sign that says "Down with Umbridge" on one side and "There should be a decree against ugly" on the other.

Rebelling, rebelling, here in the land of Denial. It seems to me like she'd only get the position if she took over the Ministry like a dictatorship. The History of Magic classroom should be large enough. Okay, tagging the new thread to have it in my subscriptions. I don't see umbridge staying on at the MoM at all after her experiences. But, you never know? I'll be back later to do the quotes, want to go watch the news for a bit. I don't think Umbridge will become M. Afterall, she just got away from being headmistress at Hogwarts which turned out to be a very very unenjoyable experience for her.

If I were her, I wouldn't want anythign to do with the Ministry for a while. Maybe she will just go back to being the Senior Undersecratary to the Minister. And as for how umbrige look, i've always thought of the lady who plays the main wife character in the movie "Babe". New quotes I found it curious that Remus was going to have to think how to do the lessons, when Harry had already told him that he thought his boggart would turn into a dementor.

Unless Remus just forgot. Obviously he remembers later as that is his solution. And Hermione has, of course, figured out that Remus is a werewolf. She would have told the other two, if Ron hadn't been mouthy. I must admit that I have a hard time seeing Umbridge as MoM as well. We've seen her "rule" already, and having her take over the whole of wizarding Britain would seem to be just a macrocosm of what we saw in OoTP.

It makes more literary sense that it would be someone slightly more obscure. I do agree, however, that the next MoM is likely to be worse than Fudge, and consequently worse for the Order. Originally posted by Xayla: Oh rbpjsg, I'm rebelling against Umbridge. ELF, that is exactly how I pictured Umbridge, with flowery robes and all, disgusting to think about isn't it? Have to come back to the quotes. Were you here a couple months ago when someone made the very astute observation that JKR has established a pattern of introducing important concepts in a small, sometimes humorous manner before they become more serious and central two books later?

In other words, she employs the "micro" to "macro" technique in other contexts, so why not this one? I personally pictured Umbridge as the Frog Lady from an old '80s movie "Ice Pirates"--complete with ribbitting and fly catching tongue! Thanks for the new quotes, RLFan! Why then does Remus have to figure a way for Harry to face dementors? In allowing Harry to face the Boggart Dementor, Remus allows Harry to face his worst fear--the deaths of his parents, and work beyond it. This allows Harry to be in the presence of a Dementor and continue to function and defend himself before succumbing to a dementor attack.

On the train Harry had no idea what was happening, or why he collapsed. Remus is giving Harry a Practical lesson on the true effects of a dementors attack, which in turn, strengthens Harry's ability to produce a strong Patronus. It also teaches Harry a depth of concentration that he didn't have before. This concentration seems to be key to making spells work properly, and to fight off other spells. For example, "Accio" in GoF, Harry couldn't perform it because he wasn't concentrating properly Concentration is also key to blocking out spells like "Imperio".

Once Harry knew how to stop his ears and concentrate on something else, he then began to ignore the charm altogether. By the time the trio run into the Veela girl Fleur in the forest, Ron is affected by the charm, but Harry is not The Imperius charm also requires strong level of concentration and strength of character. Imposter Moody put Harry through his paces 4 times, until Harry could throw the curse off completely.

Later, we see the same level of concentration is required for Occlumency. Hey guys, I was up late doing a Buffython last night, and a question popped into my head at 2am: I'm assuming that females can get bitten and turn into werewolves--do you think there is a way of distinguishing a female werewolf from a male werewolf? Like would one of the 5 markings that distinguish it from a real wolf be slightly different? Or do all werewolves look the same in their transformed state, regardless of gender?

I know we've discussed whether any have different markings, but I'm not sure we've discussed female werewolves. I'm guessing that, as with many regular animals, we would notice the presence or absence of, er, certain body parts. I also wonder why Harry had to remind Lupin about the lessons? Perhaps the student learns more if the teacher lets the student come to him, because the student himself is motivated enough to take the initiative.


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But being a good teacher and mentor, he could not turn away a student's request for individual help. Re: Why Lupin has to "figure out" a way for Harry to face dementors. In other words, if Harry sees these lessons as more of a collaboration rather than a cliche professorial "I have divine knowledge which I shall impart unto thee, lowly student," perhaps Harry will be more relaxed and actually get more out of the lesson.

He doesn't just leap to the answer which he might have done ; he lets Harry watch him considering their options. It's another lesson in cool-headed critical thinking, very subtle but perhaps very effective. I would go for that if I didn't feel like we've already seen the effects on Hogwarts of Umbridge in an important leadership position. I oppose the idea for the same practical reason that I oppose the idea that Lupin will die before the end: it's "already been done. I don't really think he was so much reminding Lupin as in that he'd forgotten, but just bringing it up so that they could coordinate something.

As to Lupin figuring out how to do the lessons, often the "obvious" answer i. It's likely that it just didn't occur to him to use a boggart until he happened to discover the one that they ended up using: "Hmmm, pesky boggart. Wait a minute. We learn in OoP [DA class] that you don't necessarily have to face a dementor, or even a boggart, to produce an insubstantial or a corporeal Patronus.

So I think it was very necessary for Remus to find something for Harry to practice on, and the boggart was an ingenious solution. Another reason might be that he was considering wether he should make Harry face a "Dementor" at once or leave it for later. He said he had to think about it carefully, he could be talking about many things. If he was going to train Harry is small steps it would have taken them longer, so better risk it and make him face one at once, after all Lupin was there, he would be able to control the situation, specially with a Boggart.

Credo As to Lupin figuring out how to do the lessons, often the "obvious" answer i. He also is right there when Molly has her disasterous run in with one in Ootp. Jo seems to be linking Remus with fear; more specifically its defeat. Fear is dispelled in his presence and people grow stronger and stand up to their fears. I I still maintain that the next Minister will be genuinely evil, creating a much bigger threat than the lethargic and inept Fudge. I also don't think we've heard the last of Dolores Umbridge and her agenda that involves tagging half-breeds, or clause three of the Code of Wand Use which states that "no non-human creature is permitted to carry or use a wand".

I agree that the next MoM is going to be evil. I had wondered if it would be possible for Malfoy to bribe his way out of Azkaban and into the ministry - but he's a bit too obvious. I had wondered about a closet DE, someone who has been hiding under their hood and has not been revealed to us. I also had my doubts about Umbridge at first, but the more I think about it the more likely it seems.

I worry about our dear Remus! Originally Posted by Loup Garou Were you here a couple months ago when someone made the very astute observation that JKR has established a pattern of introducing important concepts in a small, sometimes humorous manner before they become more serious and central two books later? How would our introduction to Umbridge be considered a small one? When we first were introduced to an animagus, heard a mention of Sirius Black, etc. However, Umbridge plays a larger part than this.

She exists throughout the majority of OOTP. Hardly a very "micro" role. Her role is micro in that her sadistic and power-hungry behaviours only really affect Hogwarts in OotP, just a small part of the wizard world. What we are suggesting is that soon her agenda will affect all of wizarding Britain and likely beyond. I originally thought it would be Lucius as well, but many factors led me to suspect Umbridge instead, one of which being the pattern of her escalating power. I think the incident with the centaurs was just a temporary setback for her. Another important point is that Umbridge works for the Ministry.

She's the Senior Undersecretary for the Minister and yet we don't see her serving in her political position except very briefly during Harry's hearing.


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  6. Instead we see her representing the oppressive force of the Ministry at Hogwarts by filling the role of teacher if you can call that teaching. We have not yet seen her for more than a glimpse in the political sphere which she normally works in and I think we will, especially seeing as Jo took a whole book to develop her character.

    10 YA Standalones of July 2018

    Speaking of which, the major players at the end of the series are likely going to be characters that have already been developed. Fudge has been Minister for 5 books now and I can't see Jo just plunking a very minor character in the role, although I certainly admit I could be off on this. All other arguments aside, I honestly don't know why JKR would construct Umbridge's character around a hatred for half-breeds and then not even have this play a vital role. As Remus is the main half-breed in the story and quite possibly even the HBP, I think this aspect of her character will play a major part in the next novel.

    Just my opinion and no one has to agree with me If I am wrong please pelt me with something nice, like say Excellent points, Elf. I Love Lupin He is just the best.. I think we have a lot in common. I;m Melanie. I should also clarify my original post. What I was implying that JKR introduced in GoF was the open conflict between Dumbledore and his people and the Ministry, just in case anyone wondered how my statement about Umbridge's ultimate attainment of power coming in HBP could possibly link to Book 4.

    Serves me right to try to make succinct posts about literary devices while distracted by following news on at least two different fronts yesterday I;m Melanie :welcome: to the Remus Lupin thread, Melanie. It's a lot of fun here. Although right now we're waiting for our next set of quotes, I think. Followed by tiny, faithful Chihuahua wearing sandwich board. It is called the Patronus Charm. But I must warn you, Harry, that the charm might be too advanced for you.

    Many qualified wizards have difficulty with it. Finally, he settled on the moment when he had first ridden a broomstick. He tried to keep his mind on flying, but something else kept intruding. Lupin grasped the lid of the packing case and pulled. A dementor rose slowly from the box, its hooded face turned toward Harry, one glistening, scabbed hand gripping its cloak.

    Reveal (In the Loup: Book #12)

    The lamps around the classroom flickered and went out. The dementor stepped from the box and started to sweep silently toward Harry, drawing a deep, rattling breath. Not Harry! Stand aside, girl! He was lying flat on his back on the floor. The classroom lamps were alight again.

    What if the dementors turn up at our match against Ravenclaw? He gripped his wand tightly again and took up his position in the middle of the classroom. The room went icily cold and dark once more. This time it was a minute before Harry understood why he was lying on a dusty classroom floor.

    تحميل Reveal (In the Loup #12) PDF مجاناً - dagygaby.ml

    We were friends at Hogwarts. This charm is ridiculously advanced. He got up again. Hang on. Out of the corner of his eye, he saw Professor Lupin forcing the boggart back into the packing case with his wand; it had turned into a silvery orb again. That was definitely a start! Just one more go? Same time next week? He took a bite of the chocolate and watched Lupin extinguishing the lamps that had rekindled with the disappearance of the dementor. A thought had just occurred to him. I find it curious that we never find out what Lupin's patronus is. On the Hogwart's Express it is not a corporeal patronus and he does not demonstrate the spell at all for Harry.

    I can understand why he would want Harry to come to his own conclusions about the spell beacuse then he would have a better understanding of it, but the exclusion of his patronus form seems almost deliberate. Or is he unable to produce a corporeal patronus? From a literary standpoint, I think it's significant that Lupin chose the History of Magic classroom for the lesson.

    First of all, boggarts feed on fear, and dementors feed on "hope, happiness, the desire to survive. Also, the History of Magic class itself is taught by a ghost, Professor Binns. And Harry's lesson is haunted by the "ghosts" of his mother and father.

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    Welcome LupinLunatic! This again shows Harry showing up and it is dark and empty but as the lamps are lit Remus shows up, bringing Harry more insight and light. Always wondered if a boggart is actually what Remus was looking for when he was in Filchs office, maybe he just got lucky while he ws looking for a particular map. I like the way Remus tells Harry first that the Patronus is a hard spell, way beyond OWL, so Harry will realize that he won't just say the spell and a Patronus will occur, it might take a lot of work.

    I also think Remus knew all along that Harry would beable to conjure a Patronus, he knew Harrys aptitude and talents. This all must have been hard of Remus also, knowing what Harry hears when the dementors get close, Harry hearing James, and then when he brought up Sirius. All bad memories for Remus too. I'm sure he is, or he wouldn't have been able to teach Harry how to conjure one.

    In general, I noticed once again how different Snape's and Remus' teaching styles are when teaching Harry Occlumency and the Patronus Charm, respectively: 1 Snape is impatient and doesn't tolerate any mistakes, while Remus allows Harry to make mistakes with the incantation. I think this was touched upon in one of the earlier versions, but it's very interesting that Remus finds the boggart in Filch's filing cabinet I wonder what Remus was doing in Filch's office? Lupin's clear teaching style is excellent here- by explaining to Harry exactly how the Patronus works, I think he helps to allay Harry's fears a bit.

    But he does preface this by saying the charm is very advanced, so he is letting Harry know right up front that this won't be easy and not to expect to master it on the first try. Notice, that all it takes is a smile and a few words of praise and Harry is ready to try it on the dementor. Harry definitely should have been excited, considering how difficult the Patronus Charm is to conjure. Lupin recognizes and acknowledges the difficulty of the spell and is pleased that Harry has been able to produce something from his wand.

    I love this scene. OK, some of the things that stick out for me: 1. Lupin's kindness stands out once again as he says the boggart will be happy in the cupboard under his desk. Lupin repeatedly reinforces the idea that this is an advanced charm. He leaves a lot of room so Harry hopefully won't worry as much if he fails to produce a patronus.

    At the same time, he's doing everything he can to help Harry succeed at it. Naturally, Lupin is prepared with chocolate for Harry after the first time. He also gives Harry an easy out if he wants it, when Harry reveals that the voices are getting louder, which shows another kindness. When Harry wants to continue Lupin gives constructive criticism by telling him to find a stronger happy memory. This shows once again Lupin's ability as a teacher. He lets the student set some boundaries. The second attempt is a more intense version of the first.

    However, I almost had the impression that Lupin wants to stop after this because of the pain that he feels this is causing Harry. Lupin almost cuts himself off after his admission that he knew James by giving Harry another out. I think the abrupt change of subject shows that it's very painful for Lupin to hear of his friends' deaths. We see Lupin very reluctant to continue, but he still allows Harry to set the boundaries. Once Harry succeeds, Lupin allows the moment to last long enough for Harry to know that he's succeeded.

    Once again, this shows his extraordinary teaching ability. Harry sees the "silvery orb", another hint of Lupin's lycanthropy, but doesn't pick up on it. Although he has allowed Harry to set boundaries, he knows to let Harry end on a successful note. Lupin praises Harry, again positive reinforcement. I find it interesting that he gives Harry Honeydukes' best chocolate, showing that he recognizes the need Harry will have for something strong. Interesting turn of phrase "after my blood". And not one I'm used to hearing.

    Is it a commone phrase in the UK? Or foreshadowing? The reaction Lupin has to Harry's question about Sirius seems to be more literary device than character device. It seems to me to hint that there is a current connection, which is a red herring. When Harry explains about the Hogwarts connection, then Lupin relaxes. More red herring. My alter ego, The Lyceum Devil's Advocate, wants to add two knuts to this point: while generaly speaking, you're right, it is not very accurate when you have a closer look at both classes and their aims.

    Patronus Class: - Harry asks for the class, so he obviously wants to learn - he asks for it because he wants to protect himself from the Dementors during Quidditch--nothing serious, really, he would be quite safe even if he didn't learn the spell, as there are teachers present at the pitch together with Dumbledore, but Harry wants to be safe and win the match - Harry wants to learn the spell aslo because he doesn't want to disappoint the Gryffs--peer pressure is very important at that age, so it's one of his biggest reasons to learn how to conjure a patronus - Harry also doesn't want to hear his mother's voice when the Dementors are near, but he could just stop breaking the rules--that would lead to safe and non-dementor school year - Lupin doesn't insist on Harry learning the spell quickly--the spell is difficult, but also not crucial for the boy but for the plot ; Occlumency class: - the class is 2 years later than the Patronus class, so Harry is supposed to be more mature and know more about magic - the class is absolutely vital--Harry has to learn how to close his mind from Voldemort because otherwise not only he, but all the wizarding world is at great danger - Snape acts better than normally, he even explains some very important things - Snape wants to teach Harry as soon as possible because of the threat to both Harry above and to Severus--he is a spy, after all, so he cannot risk being exposed to Voldemort - Snape is tough, but not only on Harry--he is hit with a stinging hex, also Harry sees his bad memories, but that doesn't stop Severus from continuing the lessons I wrote this comparison just to show that there are some differences of situation between these two lessons.

    I definitely prefer Remus and his teaching style, but Snape's class doesn't lack professionality too, although of a different sort. That said I hope you know that I'm a Remus Fan and a Deputy Quotemistress of this thread ; , so I wrote this just to show some points that are important to understand the differences between the classes and Remus and Severus. I wrote this comparison just to show that there are some differences of situation between these two lessons.

    I'd even do the bow-down-salami-salami-boloney icon, but I don't know where those are. I'd like to know where those are though, so if someone wanted to share that info it would be greatly appreciated. McPherson My alter ego, The Lyceum Devil's Advocate, wants to add two knuts to this point: while generaly speaking, you're right, it is not very accurate when you have a closer look at both classes and their aims. It's about time you showed up, I was wondering if you had retired. He doesn't want to lose the match for the Gryffindors but no one is telling him that he should learn how to defeat them or pull out of the game.

    Harry does this on his own for the team's sake, a very selfless and couragous act considering what he goes through to produce the Patronus. I like the fact that Bratanimus pointed out that the lesson takes place in the History of Magic classroom. Remus is a link to Harry's past and when we discover this we learn quite a bit about the present events and how they will affect the future.

    I've been saying for a while that PoA and HBP are about events that have come before and its what happened before that really comes out to play an important role there. And Remus is the key, a link to the past. In HBP he will be the only one with Sirius' passing. If nothing else, his role will be to inform Harry of things that happened before and I hope that his knowledge will give Harry the strength he needs to kill good old Moldyshorts.

    This maybe crazy ranting I guess we'll find out soon! Another point we learn in this scene - Remus had to FIND a boggart - just a page or two before we were wondering why Remus had to think about how to set up the lessons for Harry. The boggart we saw in the first DADA lesson is apparently gone. That was Sept and we're at Christmas break. So the 'obvious answer boggart isn't actually on hand. I picture a release in the wild after everyone's finished learning the charm - can't you see Remus dragging the boggart out to the forest in a trunk :p.

    Great point, Morweniris! Too true. Nice catch, hwyla. Well done! That's hilarious. I'm just imagining him waving his hands, trying to get rid of the thing after it's grown attached to the trunk. Get out of here! I'm gonna go OT, but only for a second. I think that was a great catch, I had never thought of that. Now back OT. Looking for the Marauders' Map, maybe? Well he said he had been combing the caste ever since they spoke.

    Maybe I've got the wrong meaning, but as I recall that word means he did a thorough search. If he was to find a boggart so soon he probably checked every dark space he could think of, and as we all know Filch's office was no mistery to Lupin. But it's an interesting idea anyway. Great points, but I do wonder about the peer pressure thing. I don't know if he does it for the team, maybe at first, but then it looks like he wants to defeat Draco in revenge for what he did to Buckbeack sp? At least that's the impression I got after this last re-read.

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    At first he's as worried as he always is, but there's a point couldn't tell exactly which one, though when he takes this personally, he does want the team to win, he does want to make Wood happy, but he wants to beat Slytherin at all costs as if he was playing he's life on it, he has to beat Malfoy and prove everyone that they can win. Just my impression. Yeah, me too. It became personal for Harry, I think, and that took precedence. There are other reasons, too, but he definitely wanted that win against Malfoy. Ruins my fun! I guess I liked the idea because of the connection to releasing wolves back into the wild :blush: However, your point does tell us that Harry's class 'might' have been the only one to face the boggart - either that or the reason Remus later had to comb the castle was because he had already used up all the boggarts that were easily found.

    Probably the latter since he had a boggart on the obstacle course - which actually suggests that when the boggarts 'disappear' they aren't killed - but have their own kind of disapperating back into their hidden spot? Or there would have been a need for MANY boggarts or the kids would have had to learn a spell to force them back into hiding. Oh no! I didn't mean to ruin your fun. Or you could always join me in lovely Denial.

    She just smiled when I showed her the sandwich board I wanted her to wear, though. Please be patient with me as this is a very long post. And as a word of warning, in order to prove my point I need to establish some less than appealing things about Snape, so bear with me as this does have to do with Remus. Now I know that initially sounds crazy, but there is actually a lot to support this idea only a bit of which I will share here. And if Remus is a Christ figure, um, guess what that makes Snape. Loup Valley, Nebraska.

    National Archives. A party leads their horses across the hot, slick rocks of Navajo Mountain. Riders stop at a Native American reservation. A dog is being roasted over the cooking pot at Fort Belknap Reservation, Montana in Wikimedia Commons. An abducted child among his Apache captors. When year-old Jimmy McKinn was rescued and returned to his family, he fought it bitterly, wanting to stay among the Apache.

    Real cowboys, of course, herded cows. Here, one readies his lasso as he looks out on his herd. Genesee, Kansas. Cowboys branding a calf. Date unspecified. A massive haul of 40, buffalo hides stored in a hide yard. Dodge City, Kansas. Coaches travel down a carriage road. Pikes Peak, Outlaw John Sontag lies dying on the ground after a shootout with a posse. Stone Corral, California. A mountainside camp set up for miners. San Juan County, Colorado. John Heith, after joining in a robbery that turned into a massacre, is lynched by a mob. Tombstone, Arizona. Buckboard wagons cross a river.

    San Carlos, Arizona. A rider in the desert refills his keg with water from a well. Apaches, including the war hero Geronimo, after their surrender to General Miles. The train behind them will carry them into exile. Nueces River, Texas. Hauling water across the countryside. Encinal, Texas. Men gamble over a game of Faro inside a saloon. Bisbee, Arizona.

    A man, at the site of a new town, looks for a lot. Guthrie, Oklahoma. The first blacksmith shop in town. Land in a new territory is auctioned off in this tent. The first house built in Dodge City, a sod home built in Men outside a crude ranch play poker. Circa Inside a bar at the Table Bluff Hotel and Saloon. Humboldt County, California. A town starts to grow. The crowd that has gathered is bidding on land that is being auctioned off.

    Anadarko, Oklahoma. Men lay down track for a new railroad, connecting the wild frontier with the world. A gold rush town in Dakota. Deadwood, Dakota. A little girl feeds the chickens. Sun River, Montana. A family outside their home. A Native American servant holds their child. New Mexico. A saloon on the streets of an Old West town. Hazen, Nevada. The Klondyke Dance Hall and saloon.

    Seattle, Washington. Typical downtown street of a town on the American frontier. Corinne, Utah.